Matthew Brown Exposes How Whistleblowers Are Being Set Up

Transcript of radio interview with Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp

“And I raised my concerns about the October 7th attack on Israel and intelligence I was very familiar with from the region. It is a very telling sign what they did afterwards with my concerns about the actions of Israel and our governments. We found one of the key players in the legacy security architecture lately or currently at Northrop Grumman.

There have been coordinated online attacks against myself, Tone Borland, David Grush, Lou Elizondo, Jeff Exatelli. The point is, is it systematic in its ongoing to this day? We have identified the main players and found that they are active duty service members or reserve service members with active clearances doing this on their work time from work computers.

This is WEAPONIZED.

Due to the sensitive nature of some of the material discussed in this interview, several names have been redacted to protect the safety of all parties involved. So, Matt Brown, Immaculate Constellation, those two words, that name is now out in the world and has received a lot of attention. And I went and looked online to see what the current evaluation of it is, and it’s got, you know, it’s got legs.

It’s the kind of story that’s got legs. It was introduced to Congress in 2024, and we talked to you for WEAPONIZED in three episodes and got a huge reaction from people. We’re curious about how it has changed your life, how the subject matter has changed itself, so I wanted to catch up with you.

Yeah, thank you, George. Thank you, Jeremy. It’s been a long nine months, I think.

We’re not quite at the anniversary yet, but that’s good to be here, catch up on that. And see where things go next.

So you’ve called Immaculate Constellation the two-faced god. Maybe that’s a good place to start. For those who didn’t see the earlier episodes that we did with you, why do you call it that?

What was it? What is it?

Janus. So I mean, that analogy was used related to how it processes data, right? And sequesters that data from people who aren’t cleared to view it.

Immaculate Constellation has a program, you know, since I was never formally read into it, I cannot authoritatively state what that was. But it certainly involved, you know, the intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance of UAP and RV around the world, especially, you know, in relation to our adversaries and their interactions with the phenomena. One thing that, you know, kind of took off was identifying Immaculate Constellation with a specific platform or, you know, a specific, like, cyber capability, right?

And one thing I want to point out that I tried to in our first interview as well, which is the key here is, you know, who was being briefed on this, and that’s OSD policy, who is in charge of the oversight for a specific category of SAPs and those are operations and logistics. So people who are saying Immaculate Constellation is an AI, or is the Sentience program from NRO, or is XYZ the reverse engineering program? Speculation, what is certain is that where I found it and its mission described fits with it being a operational SAP.

USAP, is that what it fits into, that unacknowledged Special Access program?

Correct, is like the security structure. And when I’m referring to oversight of SAPs, like there’s three bins for oversight generally and control. So you will have like intelligence, you will have your acquisition and sustainment, and then you will have policy overseeing the operations and logistics.

So your key here is to look at the office. The office isn’t building stealth bombers, it isn’t managing surveillance and reconnaissance networks. It’s setting the objectives for the Pentagon, setting the objectives for what we are doing on a day-to-day basis.

And what we do on a day-to-day basis are operations that are very often when they are classified, controlled and special programs. And this is one of those, to the best of my knowledge.

The way you described it to us and then the description given to Congress is this is an AI program that basically scours all the databases and archives and platforms and military, intelligence agencies and scoops up really good Ufo, UAP, USO, video images, things like that, and puts it somewhere else.

Right.

As if it never existed on those platforms.

That certainly appears to be one of the main functions or a capability that is part of Immaculate Constellation, right? Since it’s an operation, again, it’s not just one platform, not just one capability. One of the things that is involved is what you just said, identifying collection events of anomalous phenomena, sequestering them outside of the general population or the general incoming stream of intelligence, and make sure that it goes to where it’s supposed to go within the legacy program, I would assume, or more broadly, just the defense and intelligence community as a whole.

So, you know, is AI used? Clearly, right? That is a massive amount of data.

Is our clandestine surveillance platforms used? Yes, they’re collecting the data. They are all part of an operation, right?

So one way that SAPs are structured is like nests. So you’ll have a parent SAP above them, and it oversees many smaller programs, right? But each of those programs might have a very specific mission, like specifically managing the classification standards, right?

Ones will actually be tasked with identifying where and when to collect in the first place, to task things, and then the operation itself. These are all distinct roles and responsibilities. Since you’re at the Pentagon, you’re at headquarters, these all filter up into one comprehensive strategic view where you see everything, and that’s what’s incorporated here in the Immaculate Constellation Report.

So what is on display are many capabilities, many programs overseen by Immaculate Constellation. That’s a pretty good summary.

You know what people have said is that you saw one document about some war games in 2018, you misinterpreted it, and it means way less than you’re suggesting. You’ve read all the other criticisms that have popped up since you introduced this, or rather, Michael Schellenberg, the journalist who wrote this 12-page report, or was it 11-page, Jeremy? I’m kidding with you.

I am so pissed right now. I got two questions. Not about that.

I’m angry today and I got to be honest because you’re going to see it. So two questions. One is, today, are you able to tell us more?

So, everybody should go look at your first interview and they’ll understand who you are. They’ll understand what your career was like. And then they can catch up to being here now with us.

Okay? But everybody should do that. Two questions for you.

One is, are you able to say and talk more today than you were more freely today than you were the first time we interviewed you publicly on camera? Are you able to say more today than you were before? In general?

In general, yes, as it relates to Immaculate Constellation and the many, many, many, many documents and bodies of evidence that I consulted that were all non-public. I’m not able to speak any more about those. I’m only able to speak about what I received clearance for from the State Department to speak about.

But I am able to speak about what has happened in my life since. I’m no longer a government employee.

Pause that. We’re going to get there. So George, you’re making a joke and it’s funny, but we should dissect that for people later.

I think what’s real important right now is fundamentally, people need to go back and look at what Matt said, who he is. You asked him, did you make it up? That’s basically what you’re saying.

Did you make it up? And that’s a loaded question because we know the answer, but now we’re just going to go for this and the answer is you did not. But there’s a reason George is asking that.

But before we go there, second and last question until we move on. You keep saying Immaculate Constellation was an operation. Will you educate our viewership why you’re saying the word operation rather than saying program or would you like me to do it?

“I mean, a program is more generic. A program can be an operation. It can also be a scientific research agenda.

It can also be buying things from Lockheed Martin. Those are all programs. Operation is in the field.

You are out in the real world using military intelligence assets to carry out change, to advance the national interests, to defend our country. A program can be sitting in Idaho, researching some cool nuclear fuel, but an operation is going to be out there, especially military operation. We are in the Pentagon when this is happening.

It’s going to be out there in the world. Real world risks, life’s on the line.

The other thing I would say about that is that a program, even if they put out a false name or they change the name and all this stuff, an operation, and correct me if I’m wrong, but in the way that we’re using it is that it is functional, right? But you’re not going to necessarily go find an operation name the way you would find an official program name. So in the White House, am I wrong in that?

That’s okay.

I think you are correct.

“People above me have had access to tools and visibility that I don’t, so I cannot say what they were or were not able to look up.

Oh, we know for sure. So here’s the thing. If somebody said Matt Brown made up a document that he was exposed to on a server that he reported shouldn’t be on that server, and then Matt wrote a report because he’s a perfect, what is the didactic memory?

What’s the word? We have got like perfect audio or perfect visual memory.

Photogenic?

Photogenic. Not photogenic. That’s so good.

Photographic? Photographic, yeah. But anyway, so it’s just funny like what people need to, what I think the audience needs to understand is there was a report that you were exposed to, then you wrote something.

There was a briefing.

So I’m sorry, a briefing that you were exposed to, and then you wrote a report and you notified Congress, Senate, I don’t know how you separate them all. You notified people, you got stuff through clearance, through State Department. So I just wanted to clarify for audience what an operation is compared to like if they go look up OSAP.

“OSAP was a program. It’s different than an operation.

Right. So this AI system, somewhere in the federal government, in the executive branch, it reaches out and scoops up interesting images and information and takes it somewhere and then what’s done with it? What do they do with that?

Yeah, so I mean people have connected the dots between NRO’s sentient program as being one of the artificial intelligence capabilities that our intelligence and military community has has had access to for about a decade now at least. So what does it do with it? I mean, again, I was never formally part of this operation.

I was never formally read in. I am deducing things from the briefing that was given which was explicit about certain things, but it’s again a PowerPoint. So I mean, it classifies data and sends that data to wherever there is the mission need and there’s the clearance for it.

So when we’re talking about the UAP problem set, things like this are going to be, since we’re talking photographic or visual geospatial intelligence, right, it’s going to be going through NGA. And then from there, you know, they will have a roster of the different units and then offices that will, that are cleared for intelligence, it will receive it to use it either in their analysis or in their, you know, live day-to-day operations. Because again, UAP are real, they are in contact with our forces on a near daily basis, whether those forces happen to recognize it or not.

There’s a distinct operational need for that intelligence. And theoretically, this system is what fulfills that need, while keeping people who are not cleared in the dark about the entirety of this.

So the big question that I think was kind of missed by a lot of people that watch this, you know, they’re trying to assume because of Matt’s words and his articulation is so specific, yes, there is an operation, a technological operation, to siphon off the NHI contact promised, known, unknown, unsuspected, suspected, clanned, and it does use an artificial intelligence to keep everybody in the dark within the intelligence and military industrial complex that doesn’t have a need to know, correct or incorrect, and that’s a big thing that people kind of missed in your highlighting.

And somebody like Susan Goh at the Department of War can say, gosh, that Matt Brown comes out with this stuff, we sort of tie it low through our records, and we can’t find anything that shows that Immaculate Constellation was ever within the Department of Defense or Pentagon or DAW, and she’d be right.

Apparently, you know, I question anything coming from Ms. Goh, Goff, Public Affairs, aka Perception Management, out of DOD.

But technically, it’s not in within the DOD.

Or she’s lying.

Or she’s lying or doesn’t know.

But I think you’re right. Technically, it’s under White House authority. It’s under…

Yeah, and to jump out of the context of the time, which I try to stay in in this conversation, right, I try not to introduce information I’ve learned since into my testimony or whatever. But I think what you’re getting at is true. It’s been learned through multiple sources that Immaculate Constellation is housed or ran out of the National Security Council.

Yes.

Which makes perfect sense, given the classification structure that’s been kind of revealed by some very diligent researchers out there.

Independently verified by me and George separately multiple times, independently verified by you, independently verified by people that do verification for me and George. I mean, it’s like, I’m high confidence as they’d say that absolutely, that she might not be lying in her press statement directly because the authorities of Immaculate Constellation, are you looking at that? My niece painted my nail.

Oh, yeah.

My niece painted my nail, sorry. Go ahead.

Your niece.

My freaking niece, man. She was, yeah, my brother’s daughter.

So, it existed somewhere. I guess the most obvious question I have is, did it change as a result of you coming forward and sharing this information? I mean, I’m just asking to guess.

You’re not there anymore, but what do you think happened? Did they circle the wagons, give it a new name? What would have happened?

Because he was an active federal employee when he interviewed with us.

Correct.

Wow. Can you answer his question? No.

What happened with it? I mean, maybe they changed the name. If I had to guess, maybe my face is on a PowerPoint briefing as the next person to expose Immaculate Constellation, although apparently that honor goes to Mr. Lou Elizondo.

Thank you, Lou, for exposing Immaculate Constellation.

Did he do so accidentally inside the intelligence community or purpose well?

You know, the briefing itself listed him through his exposure of AATIP, ASAP, as responsible for exposing Immaculate Constellation.

So once it’s exposed, maybe they changed the name or maybe they didn’t. Maybe they’re just cocky about that and just left it.

I heard they changed the name immediately.

Yeah. Well, I wouldn’t be surprised. But again, asking you a guess, there’s no way they made it go away.

Oh, absolutely not. It’s an operation, it is a mission. The mission doesn’t go away just because of public exposure.

How’s it been for you? How’s your life gone since then? Take your time on this because there’s a lot of angles I’d like to pursue.

But Jeremy took you to Congress. He introduced you to a number of people who were involved in these hearings. Then the information was introduced onto the record by journalist.

And there have been continued inquiries and questions about it from members of Congress and media. But I don’t think a lot of people think about you and what this means. I know we hear almost every day from somebody who will say, come on whistleblowers, step forward, spill the beans.

There’s no way they’d ever think of prosecuting you for telling the truth. You have nothing to worry about. Give it to us because I’ve been sitting here on Axe for three, four months now, and I’m really impatient, and I need it now.

The reality for whistleblowers, people like yourself who step forward and who share information, do so at considerable risk to your personal reputation, your personal lives, your future employment, and other aspects of your life that no one seems to care about.

This shit is scary.

You say it, you make the sacrifice, put yourself at risk, and then, okay, get out of the way, who’s next? That’s the public view.

Unfortunately, that’s basically true. You know, one thing that hasn’t changed is the treatment of this subject as entertainment. It’s not entertainment.

This is gravely serious. It affects every single person in a way that every single person should be aware and thinking themselves about how to adapt to this current environment that has been hidden.

The emerging reality, the emerging consensus reality.

Correct. Yeah. How has my life been?

It’s been pretty terrible. I will start with some positives, though. It has been very positive to see the people who did listen and who did take that interview to go start to do their own research and then find their own conclusions.

That’s, for someone like me, very gratifying to see. The kind words from people who are warriors in this space longer than me matters a lot. And the friends behind the scenes who were helping me then or who have come my way since, I’m very grateful for all of those things.

So those are positives. Negatives, I mean, I lost my job. I wasn’t really in a good position to do experience.

Did you lose your job or did you quit?

I lost my job.

You did.

Yes, I did not quit. Technically, we were doged at the time.

By Elon.

By Elon is a verb. It was a verb. It is a verb.

I was a doge casualty along with other people in my office. It was a very convenient way to ensure my exit.

Right.

I’m sorry. No, go ahead.

You’ll never enter again. You’ll never get another government job. Certainly nothing involving a clearance.

Well, funny you mentioned that. I was recently told by someone from ODNI that all of my clearances and tickets are good to go.

So you were told by ODNI recently that your clearances are good to go. Then theoretically, there’s nothing blocking you from getting another government job even in the intelligence realm.

ODNI told you that? ODNI means for our viewers.

The Office of the Director of National Intelligence.

It was run by Tulsi Gabbard and she created something called the DIG.

Well, we’ll come back with that. But I mean, is there a way for you to check, independent of what you were told? Are my clearances still good?

Not that I am familiar with. I’m sure there is a way to formally request your records and see when it was and wasn’t in access. But in a practical sense, no.

The easiest way to find out is to apply for a job and have someone on the inside verify that your tickets are in order.

It’s so weird that ODNI would tell you that because, man, I heard the absolute opposite about you from ODNI. It’s weird.

Bad stuff.

Oh, yeah. No, I heard. We’ll talk later in this episode or whatever the fuck we’re doing right now.

But I think that’s ironic.

I don’t know how people are out there living a life, especially a life where they support a family after being a whistleblower. Because in my experience, this is the very opposite of lucrative. I’m just to talk money.

I’m very grateful for all the support I get, but it amounts to less than $1,000 a month.

That’s not a career. I became a whistleblower and made it big. And, you know, Matt Brown is set.

No, it’s quite the opposite. There is, in my experience, no money in ufology. And I’m not interested in a career in ufology.

It is my experience that anything people can do to not confront what you’re telling people, they’ll do. Because it’s like an ontological shock. It’s like if you have to confront extraterrestrial life, if we’re going to call it that, or whatever we call it, non-human intelligence, then we have to confront what it means to be a human being.

And that’s fucking hard, dude. You know, you’re worried about like making dimmer and stuff, you know? So those things will fall away, like the shadows fall away naturally when you just keep telling it like it is.

So I know, because we talk all the time, what you went through to get your words… You didn’t even take the opportunity to be public. I walked you into offices.

I put you in front of three individuals in private meetings, hid you as a camera person, and they trusted me enough to hear you out. And you chose not to try to go out there with your face. And I think that that’s so bold of you to do this now.

But it has had a toll on you, and I think people should know. Like, people should know how it’s affected you negatively. And if I’m going to somewhere we don’t need to go…

Well, let’s ask and see who ends up in a personal, extremely personal sense, I think, is where he was asking of you. Yes, yeah.

I want people to see even.

So I think it’s important to note that, you know, when I went to those meetings, I was still a State Department employee. Took some time off work to do that. And I was a State Department employee all the times before that, too.

[… … …]

“Name redacted.

Which is something I gave to Sissy and Sask and talked about on WEAPONIZED. And that was, you know, additional information. And that additional information was a list of 42 names associated with the legacy program.

I provided that to…

Name redacted.

You know, 42 names, that’s a lot of names. You know, most of those names are individuals. Some of them are companies.

Some of them include… And most of them are companies people have never heard of. There’s a lot of network mapping to do with 42 names.

There’s a lot of information that has been generated. This doesn’t stop till it is over. And the people have won.

We are not waiting for the government to give us documents anymore.

What do you mean exactly by that? Is that a threat? What are you saying?

What do you mean?

It is a legal threat because legally, what recourse do American citizens have to correct the actions of their government when it is no longer responsive to them? Well, we have relied on the executive branch to be the truth teller and the arbiter of what is or is not secret for far too long. It is clear that whatever truth comes out of any disclosure process is going to be biased and swayed for advantage.

The legislative branch is at an impasse. There is not enough political capital to move disclosure forward in the legislative way will result in real world outcomes. So that leaves one last branch of government.

That is the judicial branch to pursue.

People like being in the shadows and we don’t need to win every court case to take this apart.

And you’re going to win some court. So hold on. Are we in the shadows today?

Are we in the sunlight today?

Right? Beautiful California sun.

George, I’ve got a question for you.

I’m sitting in it.

I’m sorry. I’ve got a question for you. Son, okay, listen.

We have a weird soundtrack for WEAPONIZED. There’s music all around us, but this is real life. So you’re experiencing real life.

So fuck off. Check this out, George. I’ve got a question.

Can you answer me? What if people in Congress, through presidential order, were given authority to go to specific, like you sent somebody to Papoose Lake back in the early 90s to go look at Papoose Lake, see if Babel’s are a soundtrack. What if people today got that authority, presidential authority to do it?

Would you be optimistic?

I am optimistic that whatever is at those locations will be moved by the time that, say, congressman gets there to look around.

Okay, but what if you could defend against that by informing, by having many sources of information to defend against that, would you be more optimistic?

Yeah, of course. Yeah, it’d be great. I hope something comes from it.

We know what we’re talking about here.

I just want you to say that you’re optimistic, George.

Okay, I’ll take that, I’ll take that.

Yeah, I know. Hopeful is more a better word than optimistic. Hopeful, I’m hopeful that leads to something.

I am doubtful that it does.

But I just heard the first part, you’re hopeful.

A little tiny bit of hopefulness. It’d be like cream in the coffee, you know.

You don’t use cream.

But it’s a great big giant carafe of coffee.

Like really good, like Michael, like Michael Luzovsky’s coffee, like something like that.

Something like that. You know, and then a little spice for it too.

A little spice. Look, Matt, I don’t know how to end this, man. Because it’s not ending.

So I just want to say thank you. And the fight is not over. But I hope that the public, not awkwardly, gets behind you with whatever you need to continue”

From WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp: Matthew Brown Exposes How Whistleblowers Are Being Set Up, Mar 18, 2026

This material may be protected by copyright.

“Because I want you to continue. Don’t stop, no matter what it takes.

Let me ask you this. I know then from private conversations we’ve had, that you’ve been discussing sort of an initiative that you and maybe a couple of your compadres are working on. Can you talk about that now or?

Yeah.

So this is going on next week.

Based on our experience, Dylan Borland and I have started a non-profit to do disclosure by the people for the people. It is using UAP whistleblowers from the national security enterprise to pursue disclosure through the justice system. We are creating an organization specifically to wage lawfare to light our system on fire with court cases related to disclosure to make a huge fucking problem.

In addition to that, we will be looking after whistleblowers. I have experienced outside of personal support from friends and family, absolutely no assistance on the outside. There is no organized help for UAP whistleblowers, whether that be from Congress or from private initiatives.

We are quite frankly being picked off to be either exploited for financial or technical gain or to be removed from being agents of influence for the cause of disclosure.

So are you doing this for personal gain, not because that’s what everybody on the interweb is going to say? Are you doing this for personal gain? Tell me.

No.

Why?

Because this is our home and if we do not defend it, who will?

We live here.

Exactly.

Planet Earth or America?

America. I’m not sure Earth is our home anymore.

That’s existential. Look brother, let’s just cheers. I’m fucking…

We could get more helicopters and more of whatever this is too. We could orchestrate that. Yeah, because somebody banging on a pot.

Okay, check it out Michael. Look right at me. I was at the first time ever a Roger Waters concert.

It was called Old Chella. That’s what I called it. And George Knapp was there with me.

And I saw Roger Waters for the first time and there was helicopter speakers going around to see played a Pink Floyd song. And that’s what it’s felt like today. So to our listening audience, I hope this is in fucking surround sound.

What if there’s somebody with a garbage can over there going bang, bang, bang?”

From WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp: Matthew Brown Exposes How Whistleblowers Are Being Set Up, Mar 18, 2026

This material may be protected by copyright.

“What? Well, before, did you hear it, Michael?

They were saying, hey, hey, call it out to us. Can we talk to you? Did you hear it?

We’re in public. And the thing is, is like, that’s the point. Is that no more fucking dancing around and tiptoeing like a little, you know, ballerina.

No more dancing around like a, like a, like a, like a marionette in the sun, full light. We’re saying it as it is. And that’s the end of it.

And if you don’t understand, you haven’t been listening. Let’s fucking go.

Daylight is the best disinfectant our political class likes to tell us. We’re going to bring a whole bunch of it to this entire rotten structure.

Funny story. Bob Lazar knows that to be true because during COVID, he gave me a laser gun and he gave Georgia disinfectant light. I got the cooler gift.

All right, brother, cheers. Let’s cheers with a bad ombre. Hold on.

Hold on. Hold on. This is this is for George motherfucking Knapp.

That is his official legal name. I’ll say it’s a different name. It’s middle name.

It’s not. It’s motherfucking. Here we go.

Cheers, you guys[…]”

From WEAPONIZED with Jeremy Corbell & George Knapp: Matthew Brown Exposes How Whistleblowers Are Being Set Up, Mar 18, 2026
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