{"id":42974,"date":"2025-12-04T09:39:13","date_gmt":"2025-12-04T14:39:13","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/stateofthenation.info\/?p=42974"},"modified":"2025-12-04T09:39:41","modified_gmt":"2025-12-04T14:39:41","slug":"verdict-is-in-they-savagely-murdered-both-of-those-survivors-in-cold-blood","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/stateofthenation.info\/?p=42974","title":{"rendered":"<h2><b>VERDICT IS IN: They savagely murdered both of those bombed boat survivors in cold blood<\/b><\/h2>"},"content":{"rendered":"<h1>Experts explain what the law says about<br \/>\nkilling survivors of a boat strike<\/h1>\n<p><!--more-->By BEN FINLEY and KONSTANTIN TOROPIN Associated Press<br \/>\nAP<\/p>\n<p><strong class=\"dateline\">WASHINGTON \u2014<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>The U.S. military would have committed a crime if it killed the survivors of an attack on an alleged drug boat, legal experts say.<\/p>\n<p>It doesn\u2019t matter whether the U.S. is in &#8220;armed conflict&#8221; with drug cartels as the Trump administration asserts. Such a fatal second strike would have violated peacetime laws and those governing armed conflict, the experts say.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cI can\u2019t imagine anyone, no matter what the circumstance, believing it is appropriate to kill people who are clinging to a boat in the water,\u201d said Michael Schmitt, a former Air Force lawyer and professor emeritus at the U.S. Naval War College. \u201cThat is clearly unlawful.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The White House confirmed Monday that a second strike was conducted in September against a vessel accused of trafficking drugs off the coast of Venezuela and insisted it was done \u201cin self-defense&#8221; and in accordance with the laws of armed conflict.<\/p>\n<p>A news report about that attack spawned a new level of scrutiny from lawmakers and added to a growing debate about whether service members can refuse to follow illegal orders, which some Democratic lawmakers recently encouraged.<\/p>\n<p>Here\u2019s what to know about the strikes and laws of armed conflict:<\/p>\n<h3 class=\"body-h3\">What set off the debate<\/h3>\n<p>The Washington Post reported last week that Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth issued a spoken directive to \u201ckill everybody\u201d on a boat targeted on Sept. 2, the first vessel hit in what the Trump administration calls a counterdrug campaign that has grown to over 20 known strikes and more than 80 dead.<\/p>\n<p>Two men survived that first attack, which killed nine others, and were clinging to the wreckage, the newspaper reported. The commander in charge, Adm. Frank Bradley, ordered a second strike to comply with Hegseth\u2019s instructions, killing the two men, the Post reported.<\/p>\n<p>Hegseth called it \u201cfake news\u201d on social media, saying the boat strikes are \u201cin compliance with the law of armed conflict \u2014 and approved by the best military and civilian lawyers, up and down the chain of command.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>President Donald Trump said Sunday that the administration \u201cwill look into\u201d it but added that \u201cI wouldn\u2019t have wanted that \u2014 not a second strike.\u201d He noted that Hegseth told him \u201che did not order the death of those two men.\u201d<\/p>\n<div id=\"8845bd29-b4da-4765-85cf-7e2f81fe0c96\" class=\"embed embed-resize embed-related embed-related-align-center\">\n<div class=\"embed-inner\">\n<div class=\"related-embed\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>White House spokeswoman Karoline Leavitt told reporters Monday that Bradley had ordered the second strike and \u201cwas well within his authority to do so.\u201d She denied that Hegseth said to leave no survivors.<\/p>\n<p>The administration has justified the attacks as a necessary escalation to stem the flow of drugs into the United States and asserted the U.S. is engaged in an \u201carmed conflict\u201d with drug cartels, similar to the war against al-Qaida following the Sept. 11 attacks.<\/p>\n<h3 class=\"body-h3\">What the law allows during armed conflict<\/h3>\n<p>A second strike killing survivors would have been illegal under any circumstance, armed conflict or not, Schmitt said.<\/p>\n<p>He said the U.S. is not in a legitimate armed conflict with drug cartels, which would have to be committing high levels of violence against the country, not just trafficking drugs that kill Americans.<\/p>\n<p>Even if it was, \u201cit has been clear for well over a century that you may not declare what\u2019s called \u2018no quarter\u2019 \u2014 take no survivors, kill everyone,\u201d Schmitt said.<\/p>\n<p>Whether an armed conflict is taking place likely would not be settled by an international body like the International Criminal Court, to which the U.S. is not a party, said Matthew Waxman, a Columbia University law professor who was a national security official in the George W. Bush administration.<\/p>\n<p>The U.S., however, could face blowback from allies, which may decline to share information for military operations that are illegal under their own laws or international law, said Waxman, who served in the State and Defense departments and on the National Security Council under Bush.<\/p>\n<p>America&#8217;s armed conflict against al-Qaida received support from the U.N. Security Council, NATO and U.S. allies, he said.<\/p>\n<h3 class=\"body-h3\">The legal threat posed to US military personnel<\/h3>\n<p>If the U.S. is not in an armed conflict, that means it violated international human rights law, which governs how countries treat individuals, Schmitt said.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cYou can only use lethal force in circumstances where there is an imminent threat,\u201d Schmitt said. \u201cAnd that wasn\u2019t the case.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Brian Finucane, a senior adviser with the International Crisis Group and a former State Department lawyer, agreed that the U.S. is not in an armed conflict with drug cartels.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThe term for a premeditated killing outside of armed conflict is murder,\u201d Finucane said, adding that U.S. military personnel could be prosecuted in American courts.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cMurder on the high seas is a crime,\u201d he said. \u201cConspiracy to commit murder outside of the United States is a crime. And under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, Article 118 makes murder an offense.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The Pentagon\u2019s own manual on the laws of war describes a scenario similar to the Sept. 2 boat strike when discussing when service members should refuse to comply with unlawful orders.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cFor example,\u201d\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/ogc.osd.mil\/Portals\/99\/department_of_defense_law_of_war_manual.pdf\" rel=\"nofollow\">the manual says<\/a>, \u201corders to fire upon the shipwrecked would be clearly illegal.\u201d<\/p>\n<h3 class=\"body-h3\">What Congress has said about what comes next<\/h3>\n<p>Leaders of the Armed Services committees in both the House and Senate have opened investigations.<\/p>\n<p>Republican Sen. Roger Wicker of Mississippi, chairman of the Senate&#8217;s committee, and its top Democrat, Rhode Island Sen. Jack Reed, said the committee \u201cwill be conducting vigorous oversight to determine the facts related to these circumstances.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Concern about the second strike comes after a group of Democratic lawmakers \u2014 all veterans of the armed services and intelligence community \u2014 released a video calling on U.S. military members to defy \u201cillegal orders.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Among them was Sen. Mark Kelly, an Arizona Democrat and former Navy fighter pilot who has questioned the use of the military to attack the alleged drug boats. The Pentagon says it&#8217;s investigating Kelly over possible breaches of military law tied to the video.<\/p>\n<p>Kelly said Monday that \u201cif what seems to have happened, actually happened, I\u2019m really concerned about our service members.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Senate Majority Leader John Thune has defended the boat strikes as stopping the flow of narcotics into the U.S. and said to wait for the outcome of the reviews.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cObviously, if there was a direction to take a second shot and kill people, that\u2019s a violation of an ethical, moral or legal code. We need to get to the bottom of it,\u201d said Sen. Thom Tillis, a North Carolina Republican.<\/p>\n<p>___<\/p>\n<p><em>Associated Press writers Stephen Groves, Lisa Mascaro and Joey Cappelletti contributed to this report.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>____<br \/>\n<a href=\"https:\/\/www.wcvb.com\/article\/legal-experts-drug-boat-strike\/69604124\">https:\/\/www.wcvb.com\/article\/legal-experts-drug-boat-strike\/69604124<\/a><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Experts explain what the law says about killing survivors of a boat strike<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-42974","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/stateofthenation.info\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/42974","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/stateofthenation.info\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/stateofthenation.info\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stateofthenation.info\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stateofthenation.info\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=42974"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/stateofthenation.info\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/42974\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/stateofthenation.info\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=42974"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stateofthenation.info\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=42974"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stateofthenation.info\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=42974"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}